Is there any hard data to backup the oft cited theory that most submissive people are powerful and successful alpha types in their public lives? This recent article by Susan Wright is the latest to trot this idea out, and it often gets referenced in mainstream discussions of D/s. Personally I’m skeptical.
The only data I usually see is anecdotal from pro-dommes, and that doesn’t strike me as a great source. Firstly, their sample set is massively skewed towards middle aged guys with jobs that provide them with hundreds of dollars of discretionary income. Secondly, they have a vested interest to portray their clients in a positive light. No smart business person says bad things about their product or customers. Even outside the professional realm I think there’s a tendency to react to the perceived mainstream perception of submission. Kinksters assume people will think submissives are weak, weird or wimpy, so emphasize the opposite.
So I ask the question: Does anyone know of an actual study on this? Or is it just one of those sex myths (like supposed sex trafficking at the World Cup or Super Bowl) that gets endlessly repeated despite a lack of actual evidence?
Hi Paltego:
Although I don’t know of any actual studies that will back me up I am going to agree with you on this. I think clients fit the alpha mold well because it takes money to hire a pro and more successful men tend to be alpha almost by definition. These men are kinky in the bedroom but are they really submissive? Somehow I think most of these powerful men prefer to keep their kinks secret and compartmentalized. Submission is an experience they pay for like riding a roller coaster or going to the movies. When it’s over they return to alpha form. In contrast my guess is that most subs involved in lifestyle relationships with a dominant partner are more type B than type A.
My experience attending a few retreats put on by professional dommes leads to agree with your thoughts. The men at those retreats were successful enough to have the financial means to attend, and to have that level of financial success means you have to have some level (sometimes too much IMHO) assertiveness.
In the lifestyle arena it’s usually the other way around. Lots of submissive guys there are truly submissive, looking for a stronger female who’s willing to take over control. They are usually non-alpha looking for an alpha in their life.
That’s an interesting observation. Of course without an actual study it’s hard to tell which is the most common group. Is the lifestyle guy the majority or vice-versa?
This also gets into the question of submission versus straightforward kinkiness. I wonder how many of the pro-domme clients you met were fetishists or masochists, and just identified as submissives because that’s the common label.
-paltego
Many years ago, I was hanging out at the Max Fisch boards (oh man, memory trip), and the conversation did come up that prodommes never seemed to see, for example, plumbers or bus drivers as clients. It makes you wonder what guys who don’t have high-paying jobs manage to do in order to get their kinky fix – if they can even do so.
I wonder if one of the reasons that we see so many blogs and web forums with “What can I do to get my wife to domme me?” questions isn’t partly a result of men who aren’t making $250k/year looking for the least expensive alternative.
See my latest post 🙂 As I was writing the original post I remembered an article that featured a non-wealthy client.
I suspect the vast majority of submissives would prefer a lifestyle relationship if possible, regardless of their incoming level. But lacking that, and given sufficient discretionary incoming, alternatives can be arranged. When that option is absent, I think you’re then into the ‘What can I do to get my wife to domme me?’ problem.
-paltego
Hmmmm…….I recall an interview with the late great Eva Taurel (Norvind) in one of the first few issues of Skin Two magazine way back in about 85, where She stated Her clients (She is in New York at this time) were mainly professional people, but occasionally She “would see a truck driver or a plumber” and went on to expand on this theme. It condensed to the fact it is intelect rather than finance or Alpha characteristics which defined the majority of players..either Dom or Sub. Now the most successful in any sphere are not necessarily the most intellectual but there generally is some correlation to background (class) and therefore level of education, and success-just look here at British politics. Power does indeed weild interestingly shaped aphrodisiac qualities, but as Terence Sellers aka Angel Stern writes…(I’m paraphrashing from memory here) “the coiled whips are usually found behind the bookcases” (not the 52 inch plasma tv with the sports channel showing!)
That’s a whole different theory 🙂 and I’m not sure I buy it.
I suspect if you surveyed fetish groups, pro-domme clients and online forums, you would find a correlation with education. But I suspect that’s a correlation rather than a causation. Much like the one between ice cream consumption and drowning. They correlate well but they’re not causative. Hot weather is the hidden correlation.
My guess would be that education and class is tied to wealth and leisure time, which is in turn tied to exploring kinks in clubs and with pro-dommes. If I was working 2 jobs to put kids through college and dealing with shitty health insurance, I’d probably not have the time or energy to do blogs like this one.
-paltego
Of course not all clients are wealthy and powerful so it behooves us not to paint a widely diverse bunch of people all with the same brush. Many men who visit pros don’t fit that mold. There are probably even some plumbers in the bunch. But if the cliche of the wealthy and powerful secret sub applies at all it would seem to apply more closely to clients than it would to lifestyle subs.
Definitely. In fact see my latest post for an example of exactly that 🙂
I don’t think all pro-domme clients are a uniform bunch of middle-age white guys with well paid jobs. But I suspect it does skew that way, which makes any data from there suspect in my eyes.
Event with lifestyle subs there is are some interesting factors to consider (see my reply to Christinesixteen) but of course it’s all guesswork. There’s a horrible lack of solid data.
-paltego
From the men I have met who visit Pro-Dommes (and I have met quite a few) and from the Pro-Dommes I have talked with about this (again quite a few), I would say the stereotype of the alpha male Pro-Domme client is real. And it fits for me. But I do not think it is just a case of wealthy men having access to Pro-Domme services. One of the things I get out of a session is a break from having to be responsible and make decisions. Also, after a really good session, and some time recovering, I find my thinking to be clearer and I can see some of the ruts I may have dug in my earlier thinking.
Of course education is most tied to wealth. However, intellect is measured in different ways. Class though, as the artist Grayson Perry (correctly in my opinion) states that class (in the UK at least) is now dictated by taste, not money or background. Having myself attended University with a smattering of a few of the great and good Etonians and Harrovians, I can only concur. Vulgarians all, and would struggle to find their arse with both hands in a darkened room! Of course I have no idea what they got up to in private!